AUSTIN FILM FESTIVAL

Despite hits, John Milius was never seen as big kahuna

By Chris Garcia
AMERICAN-STATESMAN FILM WRITER
Monday, October 08, 2007

Funny images come to mind while talking to writer-director John Milius: Shotguns. Mounted grizzly heads. Fat cigars. Beards. Bourbon shots. Wrestling. Hairy backs.

Milius, a Hollywood veteran whose screenplays include "Apocalypse Now," "Dirty Harry" and "Conan the Barbarian," speaks in a brusque basso grumble. He can be terse, indicating disinterest. But he can also percolate with enthusiasm when expressing his love of Will Ferrell's comedies. He's a reluctant interview, more interested in doing his work than gabbing about it.

Milius' films, from "The Wind and the Lion" to "Red Dawn," reflect his abiding interest in warfare and the mythic struggles of bronzed male heroes who seize glory through violence and valor.

Even surfers are golden gods in Milius' virile cosmos, perched atop simple man-made devices — like David's sling-shot or Icarus' wings — and conquering the roaring, liquid behemoths the heavens unleash.

In his 1978 surfer-dude epic "Big Wednesday," starring Jan-Michael Vincent, William Katt and Gary Busey, Milius extolled the Southern California surfing life he lived in the 1960s. Milius will screen his underappreciated feature Friday at the Bullock Theater during the Austin Film Festival and Screenwriters Conference, where the gun collector and NRA board member will receive the Distinguished Screenwriter Award.

The honor acknowledges a muscular body of work that bulges with memorable dialogue: the U.S.S. Indianapolis soliloquy in "Jaws"; the "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" speech in "Apocalypse Now"; and Clint Eastwood's immortal "Go ahead, make my day" in "Sudden Impact."

Hollywood doesn't like him, Milius says, and he loathes it right back. Still, at 63, he's not stopping. He co-created and wrote several episodes of the bloody HBO series "Rome" and wrote the Korean War drama "The Chosin Few" for Mark Cuban's 2929 Entertainment. He's also writing and directing the rough and tumble motorcycle feature "The Iron Horsemen."

Milius isn't the easiest or best interview, but charm, vim and humor seep out during a short phone conversation. When, at the end, we thank him for his time, he chuckles, "Whatever."

Why did you select "Big Wednesday" to show at the Austin Film Festival?

It's my favorite film. I think it's really good. I like the ambition of it. It had a sort of checkered past. When it came out it was a failure.

Why were critics so harsh to it?

The were harsh to me. I guess they felt I was a threat to Western civilization or something.

Isn't that an ongoing dysfunctional relationship with you and critics? You're often described as this right-wing manly man, fascist and hawkish.

I'm just from another point of view than them.

How true to your life is the surfer existence you depict in "Big Wednesday"?

It's really true to my life. Anytime you do a movie about your life, you're going to romanticize it, but it's pretty true. What's nice is that it still has relevancy today to kids, surfers and not. The movie has an extraordinary following.

It endures because its themes about American youth are universal — the idea, as you've put it, that these characters are "playing at life, but life catches up with you."

Yeah. And there are certain values that these guys have. Their codes, their loyalties, the ways they have to face things. They become more responsible as time goes on. Tenacity becomes as important as anything else. There's an interesting quality to the film that I didn't see at the time, and that's that compared to other coming-of-age movies, this film has a certain stoicism to it.

What about surfing as metaphor? You've said the surfboard is a 'mystical thing,' like the sword Excalibur. And what we watch is the classic hero's journey, all his lessons, his departure and return.

There are standards and they will have to go out and test themselves, whether in life or on the big day of the title. I don't know what the classic model of the hero's journey is. I've never read what's-his-name (Joseph) Campbell. I don't pay any attention to that. It's all bogus.

You boast that you have no strict screenwriting technique and don't necessarily follow the three-act structure.

I see where the characters are going to end up, but I don't know how they're are going to get there. I don't know what they're going to say or do from day to day, especially in a long story like this. They can do anything.

That's a liberating approach for fledgling screenwriters who take the counsel of gurus like Syd Field as gospel.

That's why movies are no good. No writer worth his salt followed any guides. Can you imagine Herman Melville sitting there with Syd Field's book? Or William Faulkner or Elmore Leonard or any really good writer listening to this (junk). It doesn't matter. It's of no significance to anyone.

I have to mention "Red Dawn," because to lots of people of a certain age here in Austin, the movie's cult status hasn't dimmed. It sells out the revival house whenever it plays. That movie was also excoriated in its time (1984).

Oh, yeah, it was. I'm fond of it, but not as much as some of the other films. I don't feel it's as complete a vision. My favorite films of mine are "Big Wednesday," "The Wind and the Lion" and "Conan."

Why "Conan"?

"Conan" is really all of a piece. It's just all it should be. It's really very, very well done. I like the compositions and the mood. I like "Conan" because it's like a ballet.

Do you believe you've been mistreated in Hollywood?

Oh, yeah. I've been blacklisted because I'm a threat to Western civilization.

You've said that twice now. What does that mean?

I'm perceived as politically incorrect. I'm not pro-war or anything. I'm just fascinated by it. Tolstoy was fascinated by war, but he was not advocating war.

You seem to get lost in the shuffle of the '70s New Hollywood era, excluded from the pantheon that includes your peers Martin Scorsese and Francis Ford Coppola. You're famous for writing "Apocalypse Now," but films like "Dillinger" are overlooked. Does that bother you?

Listen, I was never in it for the fame and glory. I've always believed you serve the film, you serve the story. I'm just a storyteller. My only regret was that I was cut off and didn't get to do the things I wanted to do. But I don't care what anybody else does.

When were you cut off?

About 10 or 15 years ago. It's always been difficult to get projects moving. Certain members of my generation always had it easy. Every film I ever did was difficult. There was never enough money or the studio didn't want to make it.

Your literary heroes are the big ones: Faulkner, Hemingway, Melville, Kerouac. What do you think of literary writing today?

Obviously I don't think the writing of movies is very good. Occasionally something stands out.

Such as?

"The Departed" was very well-written. A movie I thought was really well-written was "Kinsey." Really well-directed. A really good movie across the board. Really made you think and consider the nature of science and behavior. Oh, and I like anything Will Ferrell has to do with. He's the best. He's the best that ever was.

The wave-riding shots in "Big Wednesday" remain groundbreaking and really hold up.

The water stuff was really exciting. They tried to copy it and do all the same shots in "Blue Crush," but the director got it backward because he's not a real surfer. Look, I'm a surfer. I know who can surf. I know when it's fake. He has the girl doing a cut-back and she falls off on the shoulder of the wave, where there's some moderate white water. And there's this underwater shot where she's being tumbled around. This proves to me that the guy's never rode any waves. It's typical of these people. One of the reasons "Big Wednesday" has such a resounding following with surfers is because it's real. It's a real surf movie made by a real surfer.