Austin Music Source

By David Hetrick

June 16, 2009 4:25 PM | Link to this

Hey Scott, Move away. Now.

By Joel

June 16, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

Not only does he go out of his way to be complete horse’s rear, but then he uses the 911 system? Isn’t there a fine for 911 abuse?

By YeahISaidIt

June 16, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this

Way to go Scotty! Woohoo! Shut down that noise and clear the airwaves of Austin. Bad enough hearing construction all night..now we can listen to some good ol’ tv tunes without the hassle from restaurants where you’re supposed to eat. LIVE music capitol…bah, humbug! That went out with the ‘90’s. Let’s get those walls up and tasers out…fire’em up popo! New World Order is alive in well in ATX! Yeah I said it!

By RonB

June 16, 2009 4:31 PM | Link to this

Called 911 for this!?!?!?

By Grumbler

June 16, 2009 4:37 PM | Link to this

Well, I find this 911 call annoying, but that being said, I don’t think Shady Grove should et any special treatment as opposed to smaller venues at other locations. Austin needs to remain uniform in enforcing these codes, and at least this outcry about Shady Grove might help lead to changes in the ordinance that could benefit other venues as well.

By Just sayin

June 16, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this

Since when is it OK to call 911 with noise complaints? I’ll leave the extensive discussion of whether Scott’s complaint is legit to others. His use of the 911 system for something like this? And the dispatcher persisting with discussing the matter with this bright spark? Methinks not, on either count.

By Confused

June 16, 2009 4:39 PM | Link to this

So Trainer’s a member of the Live Music Task Force … who calls the police to complain about the volume of live music?

What am I missing here?

By Barbara

June 16, 2009 4:42 PM | Link to this

Great, a member of the Live Music Task Force calls in on Shady Grove. I do believe he should no longer be a member of the Task Force. You will in that area, you should have known about the concerts. Move why don’t you to a place tha is nice and quiet.

By JSS

June 16, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this

According the the Travis tax appraisal records, Scott has lived there since 1993. Probably longer than most of you people have lived in Austin. Looks like he bought the place before Shady Grove started the concert series that has progressively gotten louder every year.

By Old Guard

June 16, 2009 5:06 PM | Link to this

So I guess the members of the Live Music Taskfarce aren’t really about supporting live music at all? Go figure. Now, let’s start a taskforce to rid Austin of all the whiners that have ruined this once great city!

By JP

June 16, 2009 5:07 PM | Link to this

Whether or not he moved in before the concerts, many of us would pay for that kind of access and location.

Horse’s. Rear.

By Masha

June 16, 2009 5:11 PM | Link to this

Um, aren’t you supposed to call 311, not 911 for NON-emergencies? I don’t think being annoyed by loud music counts as an emergency. And this guy is on the Live Music Task Force? Wow. Talk about sour grapes. Move to the suburbs if you don’t want any noise. Hey Scott, my neighborhood is deathly quiet so maybe we should swap homes! (Austin resident since 1986, fwiw - I love Austin.)

By Mike Standler

June 16, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this

I just listened to the call. What a whiny baby! I can’t believe this jerk is on the Live Music Task Force

By Tim

June 16, 2009 5:23 PM | Link to this

If Scott moved in in 1993 then he’s been there as long as the concert series. We’d have to know exact dates to know which came first. And Scott has probably seen the price of his house double since moving in, so he can feel free to move with a nice tidy profit and clear the way for someone who wants to live in Austin. Just because you’ve lived in Austin doesn’t mean you own the city. I don’t believe people who’ve lived here should get to block the hike and bike trail, or stop live music. Of course, I’ve been here 3 years less than Scott, so I guess my vote doesn’t count.

By Chris Crotch

June 16, 2009 5:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t give a hoot that he’s been here since 1993. That’s about when the first wave of idiot yuppies moved to Austin. I’ve been here since 1976 (the year I was born).

By MBB

June 16, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this

He should not have used 911 for this call, but rather the non-emergency 311. I can’t believe he used 911 for this!

By Mrfloyd

June 16, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this

Gee thanks Scott. Nice to have such an opened minded person such as yourself on the Music Commission. NOT!!!

Even more odd you have lived at this address since at least 1993 and now after all that time you complain? Or have you been planning this little scheme for when you knew the decibel levels would be reduced.

SHEESH

By Brian

June 16, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this

I’m ashamed this guy lives in my neighborhood. He’s probably a crony (literally) for Laura Morrison.

By brad

June 16, 2009 5:57 PM | Link to this

So not only is this guy on the Live Music Task Force, who is supposedly supporting the live music scene, but he calls 911 to file a complaint?!?! I’m honestly speechless.

By LA

June 16, 2009 5:58 PM | Link to this

This Scott Trainer is a neighborhood representative on the Task force. He got here in ‘93? My and my husbands families have been here in Austin for 3 generations. Heck my own daughter has been here longer, she has been to concerts all over town longer than he has… She thinks this whole sound thing is ridiculous. We can hear the Central Market music all over our neighborhood and use it to our advantage.. We sit in our own yard and enjoy the music as much as possible.. As long as it quiets down by 11:00, I do not see the big deal. We live in a city not Sun City. Look at it as lemonade instead of lemons. We are lucky to be here.

By mark

June 16, 2009 6:12 PM | Link to this

Scott Trainer, Neighborhood Representative……

that means he’s the one on the committee that is in charge of complaining about how loud the music is…….I’ve lived in Houston and Dallas…..I moved here for a reason and don’t want to see Austin go the way of the previous cities…..

I do not like Mr Trainer’s tactics and believe this is a poor reflection of what our South Austin community has to offer

By you idiots!

June 16, 2009 6:26 PM | Link to this

I love how all of you complain about this guy. He’s the one that is getting the rules changed. You should THANK him for bringing this to the attention to those in charge.

As for 911, they handle noise complaints all the time. Go ride with an officer sometime, you will get to go to at least 2 noise related 911 calls. Who do you call when your neighbors are idiots who play their music too loud and aren’t reasonable?

By Dustin Armour

June 16, 2009 6:43 PM | Link to this

This guy Trainer is taking away the one great thing still standing in neighborhoods in Austin. If a restaraunt is hosting Live Music and is not causing criminal activity in the area LET THEM PLAY LOUD MUSIC..its Austin FFS i have lived here since 1995 and my family has lived here since the early 70’s and we enjoy the ability to hear free music whenever it is. GET A GRIP SCOTT..Get your horses rear checked out for things that have dird up in there..you got serious issues bro..

By Kleber P

June 16, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this

Scott Trainer, you should hang your head in shame for wasting the 911 operator’s valuable time with such a ludicrous complaint.

What if one of your family members or friends didn’t get through to 911 b/c you were yapping away about this non sense. Get a life moron.

By HabeabK

June 16, 2009 6:57 PM | Link to this

That is bizarre and lame… if I love sports, should I try and get outdoor activities in the city banned???
Also - for noise complaints, you call 311. NOT 911. This was way too blatant, whatever Scott’s motives are. And I’m with the majority here, if you have a problem with music in the Live Music Capitol of the World, then move to a city that does NOT boast great live music. Isn’t that simple? Don’t live on a fault line if you hate earthquakes.

By Gabe

June 16, 2009 7:15 PM | Link to this

Shady Grove is a great music venue but I disagree with it getting special treatment especially since: 1. SG was operating above the decibel level other venues seem to have no problem complying with, 2. Mr. Trainer’s membership on the Task Force is irrelevant since even the dispatcher agrees that it’s loud, and 3. If other great restaurants manage to get health dept. licenses to serve food and liquor licenses to serve drinks it’s not too much to ask for SG to also keep its paperwork in proper order.

By JLC

June 16, 2009 7:18 PM | Link to this

Must be nice to be able to afford a nice house like that and complain about music. Shoot, if I lived there I would permanently be on the back porch listening to music. Couldn’t be much louder than the traffic. Tell you what, I got a nice house out in Oak Hill, real quiet place, we can trade straight up…hehe.

By Scott Unzicker

June 16, 2009 7:24 PM | Link to this

Brian - Indeed. Both Scott Trainer and councilwoman Laura Morrison are former presidents of the Austin Neighborhood Council. It blows my mind that Morrison could be so obviously riding both sides of the fence on this issue. On one hand, she was primarily responsible for the imposition and vigorous enforcement of the ludicrous 70db ordinance, thus catering to her ANC/soccer mom constituency… but WAIT! She can’t appear to be non live music friendly… you know… we DO live in the “live music capital of the world,” and we musicians DO bring in about $1 billion a year associated with our craft (that figure comes from the city, by the way). Consequently, she’s associating her name with a resolution to extend outdoor permits to a select few clubs… probably the ones she and her soccer mom-***-aging hipster ninnies like… in a vain attempt to appear “Austin-ey.” I’m also REALLY curious about the splintering off of code enforcement from Solid Waste Services to its own organization. Who will head it? Will it maintain a “complaint-driven” philosophy, or will it be a little more PROACTIVE, now that the city has blown its wad and coming up short to the tune of about $30 million. For more information, check out: http://www.citizinemag.com/features/music/37-keep-austin-quiet.html .

By EGK

June 16, 2009 8:10 PM | Link to this

I think the real issue is the time of day. Shady Grove doesn’t feature live music until the late, late night. Seriously. I can hear music from Stubb’s from my front porch, but it’s over at a perfectly reasonable hour. If you don’t like it, close your doors and windows. There’s no way he can hear it from inside his house.

By just the facts

June 16, 2009 8:31 PM | Link to this

what a pinhead!

By David

June 16, 2009 8:35 PM | Link to this

This guy is an idiot. Shady grove does not play music that late. What kind of a person calls 911 for something so ridiculous. The noise complaints are so low that a member of the task force has to complain. A rational person would have thought about the number of people enjoying themselves at shady grove.

I hope he enjoys all the attention he is going to get. People are now able to put a name on all this noise nonsense.

You know Scott you can buy noise canceling head phones. You would rather have 500 people cut their night short.

Austin is no longer weird, or the live music capital of the world. You can thank people like Scott for that. The assumption was that calls were being made by transplants, or downtown condo buyers….not so. Good ole Austinites are to blame.

By tim

June 16, 2009 8:39 PM | Link to this

the highway is noisey outside my house; the police sirens wail into the night… occasional gunshots indicate a deal gone bad…can I complain on the 9-1-1, and expect the Noise cops to drop everything and come and help me out?Hey Scotty, come spend a night over here…better yet,let`s trade even up.

By just the facts

June 16, 2009 8:44 PM | Link to this

Sorry EGK but that is BS. Shady Grove does not go later than Stubbs

Shady Grove starts around 8pm and is usually over around 10:30. It does not go “until the late,late night.”

Stubbs is a lot more likely to have a concert go until their midnight curfew.

By Joel Irby

June 16, 2009 8:47 PM | Link to this

Calling 911 is completely appropriate for a noise complaint. 311 is for questions/complaints that are not time-critical, for example, if you want to hear back from city staff in a day or so. The rule is, if you want police to respond, you have to call 911.

I like to listen to live music outdoors, but it’s typically much louder than it really needs to be. One reason is that folks who’ve been drinking beer START TO TALK LOUDER THAN NECESSARY. Must be annoying for the musicians! Still, it’s no excuse for causing noise pollution that’s loud enough to travel thousands of yards and still be audible through closed windows.

By KS

June 16, 2009 9:16 PM | Link to this

“Austin’s reputation as the “Live Music Capital of the World” strengthens the community’s creative economy and attracts a diverse populace. The City of Austin recognizes the importance of the local music scene; therefore, the City Council, Manager and Mayor have created the Live Music Task Force to address current issues, developments and challenges confronting Austin’s musicians and music community.” - From the Austin Music Task Force webpage. Does this guy really have any business being on the Task Force?

By Knows how to use 911 vs 311

June 16, 2009 9:19 PM | Link to this

Who’s to say that Trainer wasnt using his cell phone at a close proximity to Shady Grove (trying to get his hidden vandetta out in the open via free press/high publicity) Maybe he had bad service at SG?

By Lynn K.

June 16, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this

Have y’all noticed that you only hear the music one small portion of the call? It’s like he walked outside (because you can’t initially hear any loud music) and then walked back in. I’m just saying.

By memphis68

June 16, 2009 9:53 PM | Link to this

Here’s an idea (inspiration from Don McLean and Sanitation workers in Memphis in February 1968. How about all of Austin’s musicians taking a day off. No live music anywhere. The day the music died. Let’s see if the city council and the community at large really appreciates what live music is for this town.

By John S

June 17, 2009 7:53 AM | Link to this

Common sense is not common…

By Scott Hater

June 17, 2009 8:02 AM | Link to this

Scott, You suck! Move Now!

By jblank

June 17, 2009 8:04 AM | Link to this

I’ve only called 911 once & it was because my neighbor’s backyard was on fire. The phone rang 6 times & then I got a recording asking me to hold. I was on hold for 2 minutes. Don’t tie up 911 with your stupid whining about live music.

By dale

June 17, 2009 8:07 AM | Link to this

Scott Trainer called 911 in December because the Trail of Lights was too bright.

By Automated Robot

June 17, 2009 8:10 AM | Link to this

This is like the episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns (Scott Trainer) blocks out the sun (music).

By catjo

June 17, 2009 8:10 AM | Link to this

If you don’t like the cook, get outa the kitchen. If you don’t like the music, get outa one of the most magical neighborhoods in Austin. Go away Trainer. Dallas or Houston would love your attitude - you’d fit right in.

By ninabrown

June 17, 2009 8:24 AM | Link to this

Live Music Capital of the World and it takes a jerk LIke Scott to shut down a local business that support music. He needs to be removed from the Task Force, since it’s obvious that he does not support live music. What a baby.

By Bubba_fett

June 17, 2009 8:24 AM | Link to this

I like the mural on the back of the building off of Guadalupe. The one with the vulture’s feet clutching the music note as a black feather drifts back to the ground. Pay your respects, Austin. The music has done died. Welcome to Pleasantville, where everyone has the right not to be offended by anything.

By Kenneth Hausman

June 17, 2009 8:26 AM | Link to this

Wow! I just listened to the tape. If you haven’t heard it let me recap:

911: Hi, this is 911, what is your emergency.

Trainer: I need to get some police out here.

911: For what sir?

Trainer: Music. That darn Shady Grove is playing loud music again.

[Suddenly you can hear the music as if Trainer had walked outside]

911: Is that the music? I can hear it now.

Trainer: Yep that’s it [I just walked outside because I can’t actually hear it in my home].

911: I’ll send the police right over [you whiny baby].

By burly

June 17, 2009 8:57 AM | Link to this

Self proclaimed neighborhood guardians are working the system. It is not condo dwellers or Californians or old folks. Personal agendas become, in their mind, the will of the people. Wrong wrong wrong. Why do these guardians when they do not get their way try any tactic to subvert the consensious.

By lettyfinhadden

June 17, 2009 9:03 AM | Link to this

So another jerk has fallen out of his closet; Scott Trainer outed himself as a selfish crybaby-tattletale with a pathetically limited perspective- he thinks he’s practically a native Austinite when he’s only been here since the ‘90’s; talk about egocentric! I’m assuming he won’t be reappointed to the LIVE Music Task Force, since he misused the 911 system to KILL the music. FYI, he lives in a $650K house “above it all”;. IMO, he should be sentenced to live in Houston.

By Bill

June 17, 2009 9:14 AM | Link to this

Scott Trainer deserves our sympathy, anyone that idiotic can’t be held responsible for their actions. The bigger questions is, which fool appointed him to the task force?

By phleabag

June 17, 2009 10:05 AM | Link to this

This is despicable. Can we not have this pawn for development, probably one of Rick Perry page boys, or George Bush’s valet, removed form the task force ? This place is the live music JOKE of the world! Where are the police when someone who is NOT a minority misuses the 911 emergency system. PLEASE fine this jerk and shut him and the developers he works for up!!!

By laura aka creepy

June 17, 2009 10:19 AM | Link to this

I looked at the Live Music Ordinance website and Scott is a Neighborhood Rep., so he probably went into it because he did not like the loud music and wanted to control it, not because he liked it. Just a guess. I have to agree that the more whiny uptight type of yuppie whites that move to Austin is sad to me. They want a little essence of weirdness but really want to turn things into the mainstream normalness they are from. Hell, the roosters in my MIL’s neighborhood could be adjusted to but I afear the yuppies could not sleep and ya know instead of adjusting to life-they complain. It’s their way.

By katlyn

June 17, 2009 11:02 AM | Link to this

By the way, for the people who think that he was in the right for calling 911, he was not. Yes 911 is for immediate response, however noise is not considered life threatening. There is no threat of violence or serious loss of property. The only time a “noise complaint” should go to 911 is when it involves domestic violence or something like that. Police can respond from a 311 call; however it’s just not as important as some things. When someone breaks into your home as you’re lying in your bed with your kid at home, and an officer responds immediately, it’s because they are not busy rushing officers responding to noise complaints. You can think the people who call 911 for noise complaints for the reason it may take a few precious seconds more for them to answer while someone is having a seizure or heart attack and actually needs someone to respond immediately

By Joss Jones

June 17, 2009 11:14 AM | Link to this

The sad thing about this to me is that the call wasn’t made by a recent California transplant or an old person, but a fairly young individual who has lived at that location for 16 years and is on the Live Music Task Force.

Good job Statesman on this story. I’m glad we know who to blame.

By Biggy Johnson

June 17, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this

Clear abuse of 911.

Clear abuse of Live Music Task Force position.

Clear absence of common sense.

By LDD

June 17, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this

Thursday, Shady Grove…one of the very few music venues you can take your kids, or your elderly parents to…and the one place where someone of an older demographic can sit and enjoy music. I can only view Mr Trainer’s complaint as absolutely SELFISH. He has no concern for what has made this a most desirable city in which to live, and certainly has the means to insulate against the ‘noise’ if it’s unpleasant to him. I truly believe, in light of his use of the 911 system alone, that he should be removed from the task force post haste!

By Justin Lowe

June 17, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this

WOW!!!! I was born and raised in Austin, it is, and always will be my home since 1982! This guy sounds like a total yuppie nerd, go back to your “pleasant valley sunday” town!! This guy was way too close to that music to have been “at home”…what a joke! It doesn’t matter how long he has lived here, what matters is how long can it possibly take to get him out?! KEEP AUSTIN COOL!

By Roger L. Cauvin

June 17, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this

katlyn, I don’t take a position on the Shady Grove incident, but I do want to clear up a misconception about 911. I attend meetings with policemen, and they have specifically stated that you should NOT call 311 to report in-progress noise violations, and that you SHOULD call 911. They say that 911 is not just for serious crimes, but for any crime that is in progress or is time sensitive.

By Josh

June 17, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this

To everyone who is stating that is is perfectly acceptable to call 911 for a noise complaint. You are so very wrong. This 911 operator should have sent the call to 311 but who knows they might not have been busy. 311 has the ability to have officers respond for non time critical issues. 911 IS NOT POLICE! 911 is EMERGENCY DISPATCH for FIRE, EMS, POLICE, and crews that clean roads of hazards. It is not the police station and it is not police answering the phones. It is dispatch for several departments for the city, travis county, and parts of williamson county and is occasionally so busy you will be put on hold, but go ahead, call with yopur non urgent issue because you cannot listen to the words emergency dispatch. You should just call 311 all the time for everything. They can let you know if it is a 911 issue and will transfer you there directly if so! Then you don’t have to take the responsibility of being an idiot

By Bill Macon

June 17, 2009 12:36 PM | Link to this

Dear Roger L. Cauvin,

The problem with your comment, as I see it, is that a noise violation is not a crime. It is (arguably) a violation of a city ordinance.

I too work with police and I have never heard of you and frankly, I find your comments ignorant.

911 is to report situations that require “emergency response.”

311 is to report non-emergency situations and violations of city ordinances.

Mr. Trainer’s call was not an emergency and no crime was being committed (perhaps except his abuse of 911).

311 would have been the proper avenue for Mr. Trainer to voice his complaints (petty as they were).

By D

June 17, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this

I find it humorous that long time Austinites are the ones who are calling the city complaining about the noise.[Freddie’s and Shady Grove’s complaints have proven that] This isnt out of town Cali people moving in… its annoying native and long term Austinites being rude to their neighbors wishing the city was the way it was in the 70s.

By CK

June 17, 2009 1:25 PM | Link to this

How do I join the Scott Trainer Task Force?

By Mike H

June 17, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this

No matter what you think about noise issues, it is asinine and idiotic to waste the time of emergency dispatchers with these complaints. In response to the person who asked “who do you call when your neighbors are idiots who play their music too loud and aren’t reasonable”, the answer to that is 311. Noise complaints are NOT an emergency; minor annoyances do not warrant wasting the time of police or emergency dispatchers while people with REAL emergencies are kept waiting.

By YoDawg

June 17, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this

The problem with the *$#@ Californians is that they’re DRIVING THE COST OF REAL ESTATE TO UNATTAINABLE LEVELS…

and then crying when they can’t pay their property taxes.

Jeeze Louise, think about it, morons!

By YoDawg

June 17, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this

Plus, the Californians are plastic, souless, shells of “people” whose parents pay for everything.

By Roger L. Cauvin

June 17, 2009 2:43 PM | Link to this

Bill Macon, I know it’s not commonly known, but the police say you should call 911 if you need an immediate response.

The City’s police FAQ states, “Residents should call 9-1-1 only for police, fire or medical emergencies or if they need a police officer to respond in person.” Note the “or if they need a police officer to respond in person.” A 311 call is merely for filing a report and will not result in action to stop an in-progress crime.

Furthermore, as I stated before, I have attended multiple meetings with police officers in which they have specifically recommended calling 911 for in-progress noise violations.

Finally, a violation of city ordinance is in fact a crime. City ordinances are law (check Wikipedia or the dictionary if you don’t believe me). A crime is a violation of the law. Therefore, it is a crime to violate a city ordinance.

Again, I’m not passing judgment one way or the other on the wisdom of Trainer’s decision to complain in this case. But I do think it’s important to clear up a misconception about appropriate use of 911.

By Shai

June 17, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this

Hey, let’s just send him to Waco…he should feel right at home.

By Masha

June 17, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this

From the Statesman Blotter Wednesday: “We ask that people use 311 for non-emergency situations,” police spokeswoman Veneza Aguiñaga said. She said that if people abuse 911 or call multiple times for non-emergencies, they could be investigated. “We set up 311 so we don’t tie up 911,” she said.

There’s a huge difference between someone breaking into a house or a fire versus your neighbor playing loud music or violation of a city ordinance about trash cans. To think something like that requires the immediate attention of the police is selfish and absurd.

By ATX

June 17, 2009 3:36 PM | Link to this

“As for 911, they handle noise complaints all the time. Go ride with an officer sometime, you will get to go to at least 2 noise related 911 calls. Who do you call when your neighbors are idiots who play their music too loud and aren’t reasonable?”

Go bugger off “by you idiots.”

You are indeed the idiot here. Who do I call when my neighbor is having an emergency? Obviously, the consensus here is 911. Are you from Cali? Who would I call for other related non-emergency related issues? 311. So, you are referring to yet additional idiots (like you)who would call 911 for 311 related issues. From a native Austinite, get the hell out of our town because we do not need any more of you sucking our town dry!

By just the facts

June 17, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this

Hey Roger, do you sometimes go by the name “Scott”?

According to the police (as posted elsewhere on this site) you shouldn’t be wasting their time calling 911 for a non-emergency call (like loud music). Apparently, the police didn’t get your memo about appropriate use of 911.

Personally, I would hate to be in a situation where I needed to get ahold of the police or fire for a real emergency only to find out that 911 is tied up with pinheads making calls on trivial issues. Unless someone’s life is at risk because of loud music, then they need to call 311.

By B

June 17, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

OK so lets all just start calling 911 for noise complaints so when we really have an emergency we can’t get through.

By Bill Macon

June 17, 2009 4:02 PM | Link to this

Roger,

I’m sorry to do this, but I’m afraid I’m going to have to send you to school on your comments.

You’re statement that a “crime is a violation of law” is 100% incorrect. (I’m sorry you have to resort to wikipedia for your knowledge.) A city ordinance may be a law. But a violation of a law is not necessarily a crime.

If I violate a law in the Texas Family Code or the Labor Code or the Education Code, I’m not commiting a crime.

Here, let me provide you with a specific example. Texas Education Code (TEC) section 25.111 states, “Except as provided by Section 25.112, each school district must employ a sufficient number of teachers certified under Subchapter B, Chapter 21, to maintain an average ratio of not less than one teacher for each 20 students in average daily attendance.”

TEC 25.111 is clearly a law. Violating it is not a crime. Your argument fails.

It’s only considered a “crime” if you violate the Penal Code (or whatever the specific state calls their criminal statutes).

With regard to the 911 v. 311 issue, you’re also wrong. 311 is for “non-emergency situations.” The crux of the situation is whether or not there is an emergency, not whether you need a policeman to show up. Trainer did not have an emergency, so he improperly called 911.

By Winifred

June 17, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

Both times I have called 311 to report crimes that already happened (theft), I was told to hang up and dial 911. Veneza Aguiñaga’s statement to the Statesman just confuses me, in that context.

By Boneyard Jones

June 17, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this

Roger Cauvin,

What are you talking about? A crime is not defined as “a violation of the law.” A crime is a violation of a criminal law (which in Texas are encompassed within the Texas Penal Code). City noise ordinances aren’t considered criminal laws.

I’m a criminal attorney. I should know.

By Roger L. Cauvin

June 17, 2009 4:24 PM | Link to this

Masha, I just got off the phone with Veneza Aguinaga, and she said that her comments may merit clarification. She told me that what constitutes an “emergency” depends on the caller, and that the “abuses” of which she spoke referred to fraudulent calls and dialing 911 and then hanging up.

She did say that the department wants to avoid tying up 911 with low priority calls, but she left the door open for callers to decide for themselves what constitutes an emergency.

The essential point here is that there is a misconception that 911 is only for serious crimes like rape and murder, whereas the truth is not so black and white.

By James

June 17, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

Robert L. Cauvin, get over yourself. You are quoting wikepedia? Common sense should be all you need to know the difference between a crime and a sound ordinance. Much like a parking ticket, it is a violation of an ordinance. This “crime” did not require an immediate response. That call was embarrassing.

By selena

June 17, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

This man owns a home worth over 600k and it’s literally across the street/up the hill from SG. Scott, you’re a putz. Many Austinites, myself included, would kill for this kind of home/location. This house was built in 1993, you bought it and you’re just now complaining?? Sixteen years have passed. Where have you been?

And don’t even get me started on using 911 because you feel the music is too loud for you. Sheesh. Charges should be filed against you for misuse of the city’s emergency system.

Back in the 90’s, I lived on town lake. The music coming across the water from Fiesta Gardens literally shook the water in my waterbed from time to time. Know what I did? I got over it and often times enjoyed the music… cos I chose to live there!

By cmp

June 17, 2009 5:19 PM | Link to this

I see, everyone should move away from their homes and Austin, for that matter, because they don’t want the sound of live music piped into their homes. This is a sad commentary coming from a town that prides itself on tolerance and weirdness.

By I am there

June 17, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this

Roger Cauvin, I hate to bash my own department, but the cops are not the ones answering the phones. Some of the cops are not even clear on all of our purposes (311 vs 911). Yes, it is a rule of thumb that if it is in progress, it should go to 911, but please, exercise a bit of common sense!!! If you call 911 for a noise complaint, you are very likely going to be told that “I have your call in the system, and we ask that in the future, you utilize our non-emergency line for noise complaints.”

By I am there

June 17, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this

311 and 911 operators work literally side by side every day, 24/7. 311 operators have the 911 call system directly in front of them on the desk - every 311 operator is a cross trained 911 operator and is required to be able to enter any emergency call that crosses their phone line. So NO, it is not appropriate to call 911 for a NON emergency, such as a noise complaint. Houses burning, car wrecks, stabbings, shootings, beatings…THOSE are emergencies…the music that doesn’t let you sleep…not so much.

By I am there

June 17, 2009 6:27 PM | Link to this

P.S. Roger Cauvin 311 will get you a police officer in person…you stated ‘Note the “or if they need a police officer to respond in person.” A 311 call is merely for filing a report and will not result in action to stop an in-progress crime.’

I must dispute that - you absolutely can and will get a police response from 311. 311’s MAIN purpose, yes, is to file reports and answer questions…but as I stated above, 311 has the call taking system in front of them at all times and enters calls for service - both emergency and non emergency - all the time. :)

By Roger L. Cauvin

June 17, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this

James, please cite your sources if you believe an ordinance violation isn’t a crime. I am open to the idea that isn’t, but Wikipedia and the dictionary are certainly much more authoritative sources of information on the meanings of words than unsupported claims by you, me, or anyone else.

By rdevarga

June 17, 2009 10:14 PM | Link to this

What makes these fat cats leaving on the top of the hills think they have the right to police our enjoyment of entertainment, music, culture, engagement, laughter, song, etc. Scott Trainer has violated civil service as an appointee of the Live Music Task Force and should be removed immediately for pursueing his self-serving agenda. We, as music lovers-property owners-tax paying citizens have rights as well and should use our voices to lobby to have Scott Trainer removed as a Task Force member immediately! WTF!

By Mac Homer

June 17, 2009 10:39 PM | Link to this

Oh Scott, you are oh so powerful. Abusing your power at home. Why did you move there? Where you unaware that live music plays in that area? Get a clue, please move. You are no friend to Austin.

By M1EK

June 18, 2009 7:31 AM | Link to this

“By I am there”, our neighborhood was told to call 911 for in-progress noise complaints as well. (This was for loud parties, not live music, but one would think the same rule would apply).

By Bill Macon

June 18, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this

Roger, are you still relying on wikipedia instead of common knowledge? I suggest you read my post from 4:02 yesterday.

Clearly not all violations of laws or ordinances are crimes (as you incorrectly stated yesterday).

If wikipedia says the definition of a crime is a violation of law (regardless of what the law is), it needs to be modified to say a crime is a violation of a criminal law or ordinance (criminal being the key word there).

By Snexas

June 18, 2009 12:32 PM | Link to this

EGK, what on earth are you talking about saying Shady Grove features music “late late at night.” Since when is 8pm late at night and the music ends at 10pm.

By Snexas

June 18, 2009 12:49 PM | Link to this

Roger, Wikipedia is not considered an authoritative source. I know everyone uses it, but it’s not considered authoritative like Encyclopedia Brittanica or Merriam Websters. Most universities won’t even let you use it as a source for papers. It isn’t peer reviewed, changes arbitrarily, and anyone (regardless of whether they’re an authority on the subject or not) can post info.

By GH

June 18, 2009 8:17 PM | Link to this

Wow…Because of people like Scott, Austin is slowly becoming the next Dallas or Houston. Why? He fails to realize how good he has it. I wonder if 911 can help me relocate the Scott’s of Austin somewhere else. Anywhere but here.

Forget Keep Austin Weird.

KEEP AUSTIN AUSTIN

By julie o

June 18, 2009 10:20 PM | Link to this

Drove by Mr. Trainer’s home tonight, and he had security surveillance courtesy of APD outside his house. Is it just me or is this another misappropriation of city resources on his behalf? Wow, two cop cars?

By Roger L. Cauvin

June 19, 2009 8:07 AM | Link to this

Bill, I don’t know why you contend your personal opinion about the meanings of words is more reliable than the dictionary or Wikipedia. I asked you to cite sources to support your contention, but you have not done so. I challenge you now: cite a single authoritative source stating that a violation of a city ordinance is not a crime, or retract your unsupported claim.

Snexas, I agree that Wikipedia is not always accurate. However, wouldn’t you agree that it is more authoritative than Bill Macon’s personal opinion? Also, you mentioned Merriam Webster is authoritative. The dictionary at the Merriam Webster site, m-w.com agrees with Wikipedia that the violation of an ordinance is a crime.

By I am there

June 19, 2009 8:50 AM | Link to this

M1EK, I absolutely believe that your neighborhood was told that. HOWEVER, officers are not the end all be all of the police department. They failed to collaborate with communications as to which calls should be directed where. As a result, officers butt heads with communications many times over where to send the calls. Since we take the calls at communications, our SOPs dictate which calls are considered emergencies & which calls are not. Since criteria are the same at both 911 and 311, the ONLY time you will get any quicker a response by dialing 911 is if 311 is holding calls at that time. Just clarifying. :)

By iluvthescene

June 19, 2009 5:28 PM | Link to this

Scott’s been an Austin rez since ‘83…you know..remember Antone’s circa SRV & Jalapeno Charlies? He loves the city for it’s music scene but everything has it’s place. There IS a neighborhood above (remember sound travels that way) Barton Springs with a great grade school. I guess that means there are families w/ kids in that hood & need for enforcing sleeppy time & rules. Bet the Grove knew that when they got their liscences & permits. “Push the envelope. No one’s even paying attention” I can hear the SG folks with their cash register sounds in the back ground. They just didn’t realize that someone who actually might understand their BAD, in Austins 700,000 population, lived close enough to hear them disobeying their permit.

I could be wrong here, but…

By Jesse Weiss

June 23, 2009 11:12 AM | Link to this

I am confused and disappointed by the commentary here, much of which sounds like a lynch mob, and is posted anonymously. Is it really that hard to understand that music venues opened in residential neighborhoods (not the other way around), and that in residential neighborhoods people have small children that need to go to bed without excessive kick drums and bass? If we want to have a mixed-use core to our city — residential and commercial — then compromises have to be made; and in fact they have been, in the form of noise ordinances that all residents are bound by. Otherwise I suppose all the families could move to the suburbs, and we’d have a lovely Dallas on the Colorado.

By James

June 23, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this

Scott Trainer is only thinking about money and his real estate investments. If he were making money from Shady Grove he would not have called. That’s how full of BS his and his kind are. The world needs cities that are about art and music and Austin is what we have. It can become a really boring place like Fresno CA or a happening place even more than it is now. If Trainer wins you become Fresno. Think about it. Ever been there? Boring!!! Don’t defend the jerk, run him out of town. If majority rules he’s already packing.

By Phil

June 24, 2009 11:13 PM | Link to this

Never seen a city so stuck on itself and it’s image.

Leave the guy allow, he has just has much right to complain about you as you have to complain about him. And it doesn’t matter who was here first and even if it did, none of you were the first ones here either.

By Phil

June 24, 2009 11:45 PM | Link to this

Live Music Capital of The Weird.

By brad shooster

July 20, 2009 1:56 PM | Link to this

This whole thing was blown out of proportion by folks that don’t give a damn about other people’s rights. Once they grow up they may see that they were very self centered and really did not think about there knee jerk reaction. Mr. Trainer should not have recieved such grief.

By Rick

July 22, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this

You people are horrible are the true complainers! Have any of you gone to this guys house and listened to how loud it is when the music is playing? I live 3 1/2 blocks further away than him and I can hear the music too. Fortunately for me it’s not loud enough to bother me but I cannot imagine how bad it must be for him just up that hill in a 3-story house ….. plus I met him and he is a VERY NICE GUY who would never make a 911 call unless it was appropriate and who cares if he calls 911 or 311 or 111 ….. blah blah blah