Home > The M.O. > Archives > 2007 > October > 17 > Entry
Interview: Emile Hirsch journeys ‘Into the Wild’
In “Into the Wild,” which opens Friday in Austin, Emile Hirsch portrays Christopher McCandless, the young man immortalized in John Krakauer’s best-selling book of the same name. Disillusioned with materialism in the world, McCandless rid himself of most of his earthly possessions, and at 22, headed out on a journey of self-discovery. Though McCandless has been both praised for his rugged individualism and criticized for what some call a juvenile narcissism and carelessness, the movie directed by Sean Penn, which should get considerable attention come awards season, offers an honest, nonjudgmental portrayal of its protagonist as a gregarious if conflicted young man dedicated to living an authentic life. Indeed, “Into the Wild” is a stomach-punch of a movie, probably my favorite of the year to this point.
Hirsch visited Austin a few weeks ago, and we met at the Four Seasons to discuss his experience with making this poignant film. The young actor was both affable and thoughtful, at times affecting a measured rumination reminiscent of a young Johnny Depp or Sean Penn.
Sean Penn said he wanted you all along for the role, but what was the vetting process like with him and how he felt you out for the role?
You know, I think he wanted to get to know me. He called me up and said, ‘I was intrigued by your performance in “Lords of Dogtown.” ’ I go, ‘Wow, wow, wow, that’s Sean Penn on the other end of the line;’ then that’s the end of the conversation. And I thought that was the last I’d ever hear from him. And then he called me a week later and said, ‘Let’s go have lunch.’ We go have lunch, he brings up the book, I read it that night; I love it. I’m blown away by the concept of being able to do this film. It would be the dream come true for me to get a part like that and be able to work with someone of the caliber of Sean. But then he never brings it up again, even though we get together every three weeks for the next four months. He never really talks about the movie anymore. Occasionally he’ll say something, but not like, ‘You have the part,’ or even like, ‘I’m makin’ the movie.’ So I started to think, maybe he just, you know, thinks I’m cool or something. Of course, I figure out later that’s definitely not the case. Sean Penn does not think I am cool.
He was feelin’ me out as a person. Because he knew that whoever this cat was gonna be that he was gonna work with was gonna be a year of close contact, of editing, shooting, you’re gonna have to stare at this guy’s face. And if he didn’t like him, it was gonna be really hard for him. So I think he wanted to make sure that I had the right stuff for the part. You know, it was almost like they say about the astronauts, ‘Do you have the right stuff?’ He really needed to make sure that for all the different challenges the part was gonna have that he thought I could do it. And I gotta give him credit; you know, he believed in me more than I believed in me, at the time. I was completely gung-ho, completely committed in doing it, but he really was like, ‘I think you can do this.’
The project was obviously really important to Sean, as evidenced by that story, (and obviously very important for the McCandlesses) to get it right, to be true to Chris. Did you feel the pressure and at what point did you think, ‘I’m so invested in this that there is no pressure,’?
You know, Sean is great at making actors feel at ease. And I know maybe it wouldn’t seem like that because he’s got such a big public reputation as being very intense, but he really is a very sensitive guy, a very smart, caring guy. And he really puts actors immediately off their guard; they put their defenses down. They know that he’s on the same page with them. He’s very in tune with his actors. And I think they’re more relaxed and they don’t really feel the pressure that maybe another director with less experience would be, ‘OK, this is your big moment! Don’t [expletive] up!’
It was obviously a very physically and emotionally grueling shoot, can you speak to the different ways in which you prepared yourself physically and emotionally for this role, and the toll a roll like this takes on you both physically and emotionally?
The first thing I’ll answer to that question is that the toll that it takes on your body and emotions is that it pays you. It doesn’t take a toll on you. Physically and emotionally I was elated. You know, my spirit was soaring.
Almost like in an ascetic sense…
Yea, in a sense of awe and appreciation of the beauty of nature, and the experiences, and how grateful I was to be able to get a chance to work on the film, what good shape my body was in ‘cause I was running and hiking, and the fresh air. So, in that sense, there’s no toll. In terms of the physical sense of preparation, you know it was trying to learn as much as I could about Chris, reading journals, talking to his family — his parents Walt and Billy and his sister Carine — doing a lot of running in advance, a lot of weightlifting, a lot of endurance tests, just to make sure I was gonna be able to handle this level of physicality for eight months of straight shooting in some of the harshest conditions of climate. We were in the freezing cold in Alaska, and then one time we were shooting there and then flew straight down to Lake Mead and it was like 125 degrees, and it was like being on another planet.
There’s one scene where you’re walking up from Lake Mead, and I think you’ve just woken up from camping, and you’re walking through waves of heat, and it reminded me of when I went camping there once and we’d wake up at six in the morning and it would already be 100 degrees.
Yea! It’s so hot! One of the guys on the crew, he got heat stroke and was vomiting…he had to quit the film. It was very hard. A lot of guys were shooting with had to quit out, they just couldn’t handle it.
At 22, you basically, in a sense, get to go on this journey that Chris went on at the same age. You’ve been acting for pretty much half your life at this point, (Hirsch falls over in mock terror), sorry to put it in perspective for you like that. But I would imagine you don’t get eight months to go camping, to go on this incredible experience and this voyage of self-discovery of that length. Was there a way in which vicariously you got to kind of have the rite-of-passage experience by doing this movie, and how great and odd is that that a piece of art, or your work, can allow you to have this ability to have this kind of personal journey?
You know, that’s one of the things that I love about the opportunity I have with acting. You get to step into all these different shoes and walk on all these different paths. I don’t know if I would ever have kayaked rapids on the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon, if I hadn’t played a character who’d done it. Or if I would have hiked up sides of mountains in Alaska; I don’t know if I ever would have done that stuff. I feel so lucky to have done that, and, also…nothing else, I forgot what I was gonna say…(trails off into laughter and mock pontification)
Is there a way in which being in Chris’s shoes, understanding his story, going through the experience, affected the way you understand or search for the truth yourself.
Yea, you know, I really agree with the philosophy Chris read. Like, Henry David Thoreau’s Walden, I don’t know if you’re gonna print this part, but anybody should just pick up Walden and read it and just take from it what they will. Some of the ideas about living a life worth living, and the value you place on money…it’s not that money’s bad, but do you put it in the proper perspective? Do you let it run you to the point where you’re not truly happy, you’re just a machine?
There’s a part in the movie where Chris is overwhelmed with “things, things, things…all these things,” and the materialism of the world is driving him mad. Being from Hollywood, being surrounded by one of the most materialistic places on earth, not that similar ideas weren’t in you already, but how do you get that place where you could relate to that way of thinking? How do you detach from your everyday experiences in Hollywood to the point where you can relate to where he’s coming from?
Being from Hollywood is what actually fueled me to feel that way.
It’s kind of a way to give the finger back to Hollywood’s culture, in a sense…
Oh yea…you know, when you’re surrounded by these rich, stupid, shallow people — not all of them, but some of them — you start to really see what it’s doing to them. So, (in the movie) when I say, ‘Things, things, things,’ I mean that stuff.
You can tell. It’s a great opportunity for a 22-year-old to be able to go out and exorcise yourself of these demons that surround you or are inside you to some degree.
Mmmm, hmmm…
So how do you go from being on this intense eight-month shoot in the wilderness and desert, I mean, that’s gotta take some decompressing, and next thing you know you’re in Berlin, locked up in a green room shooting ‘Speed Racer’ (Hirsch’s next film)? What a trip.
It was very crazy. But that was part of the appeal of it in a certain sense. You go from being on the side of a beautiful mountain in the fresh air every day to not shooting one scene outdoors on ‘Speed Racer,’ all on green screen. It was great. You know what I liked about it was the diversity of the experience, the extremity of the differences. (laughs) It couldn’t have been any crazier, in terms of just, ‘This is totally different.’ It was like being in a sauna for eight months and then being thrown into an ice bath and then having the hatch shut over me.
I’ve stayed at resorts where they have the sauna or steam room and then just outside of it a freezing rectangular pool, and you’re supposed to go directly from the sauna into the cold…
I love that. There’s one of those at the hotel we were staying in in Berlin (during ‘Speed Racer’ shoot), and I would do that almost every day. I would go into the sauna and then I would just go straight into the ice bath and just chill out in the ice bath. I love that.
It’s an amazing contrast. I mean, it’s cliche, but you appreciate and are invigorated and feel the difference in the heat and the cold when you contrast them in such a way, and you come to better appreciate them both.
Yea. They both had their advantages and then the things that were harder about them. But, after ‘Into the Wild,’ I’d been outside so much, that the idea of shooting a movie on a green screen was strangely foreign to me. Like that was almost wild at the time. And the idea of being an actor and working with this very advanced technology was kind of new and exciting.
When you decompress and go back to your normal life, do you find yourself changed by the movie in that you feel a sense to push yourself more or to search more? Has it affected you in that way?
You know, I don’t wanna be like presumptuous and say that now I’m this seeking prophet, wise old man. The answer to that is no. I’m the same cat I was, but I feel like I got some fresh perspectives on life that I wouldn’t have been exposed to otherwise. I feel like I am a stronger person now than I was before ‘Into the Wild.’
The movie executes voice-over so effectively in telling the back-story of Chris, along with the flashbacks of course, but there’s something so fascinating with a role like this in that, usually as an actor, you have other actors to play off of to get emotional cues, to help you be in a place that helps you access what you’re supposed to be feeling. In this movie, so much of what you’re going through emotionally is based on what we see in flashbacks and hear from voiceover. Where do you go inside to conjure feelings and reactions that allow you to show the affect of something that we’re only being told about?
That’s a great question. I don’t know. Acting to me is like magic. Actors are like magicians. I have all my magic tricks, all my weird bits of magic. I could show you the trick, and then explain it afterwards…how I flipped the card, how I kept it under my hand the whole time, how when you weren’t looking I was touching your elbow…I could tell you all this. And for a second you’d have the epiphany of the knowledge and think, ‘Oh, it was right under my nose the whole time.’ But afterwards, you’d walk away with a feeling of disappointment. And I’m not gonna let you be disappointed. Sorry. (laughs)
I’ll forgive you. When you’re in the mountains, in the bus, in these isolated situations, there’s such a look of excitement, terror, fear and hopefulness and confusion. How do you relate to that experience? I doubt you’ve been out alone in Alaska…it’s such a weird emotion to conjure…
Well, all that stuff falls into place when you really commit to the role. That’s the closest I could really tell you, is you have to commit to the role. And once you commit to the role, that stuff starts to come to you, it starts to fall into place, it starts to shift. Things come into focus.
Hal Holbrook gives, you both give performances that I think will be nominated for Academy Awards, and Holbrook’s is only 10 minutes maybe…there was something so organic about the relationship between you two and Holbrook’s relationship to that character, I know you can’t speak for him, but talk about working with him and how real that felt. It just felt so real and palpable; did you feel that when you were doing the scenes?
I did feel that when we were doing the scenes. Everything felt so full of emotion and authenticity. And those are words that are easy to throw around when you do scenes, but it really did feel that way. He brings 82 years of experience to the table. There are scenes in the film where you can’t play those scenes unless you’re 82 years old. You can’t bring that kind of experience and knowledge and wisdom and depth, you know; that’s 82 years deep. And on top of that, he just is a loving, wonderful man. He really is. He’s a great human being. I really enjoyed working with him and getting to know him and being around him, I just had a great time with him.
There’s a real honesty and vulnerability about his work and yours and the cinematography, everything, that just permeates the film. To the point, there’s a scene where you’re sitting on a rock talking to the Rainey character, and he delivers a line, something like, “You just gotta do it, bro,” and if you looked at those words on paper, you’d think, ‘Man, that’s so contrived, how do you deliver that line without seeming like a cliche hippie.’ It was fairly early in the movie, but when he spoke that line, I was completely sold that there was nothing that seemed forced about any of it. Who is that guy and was that like working with him?
Brian Dierker, who plays Rainey, is not an actor. He was my rapid guide instructor on the Grand Canyon. We’d been trying to cast Rainey for a while, Sean had, and I’d been throwing names around of actors I liked, and every day it was like the running joke: ‘So and so?’ ‘No.’ ‘So and so?’ ‘No.’
To Sean?
Yea. And one day we’re sitting on the banks of the Colorado River, and I look at Bryan Dierker and I go, ‘Hey, Sean, what about Bryan for Rainey? He’s so perfect.’ (goes into spot-on Sean Penn impersonation) Sean puts down his cigarette, looks over at Bryan and goes, ‘No.’ then looks back down, then takes a pause and slowly looks back up and kinda squints his eyes and goes, ‘You know, I’m gonna read him.’ And then he read him and we worked with him a bit and he just was the guy, he was perfect.
What do you take from this role to the next role, to the next day of your life?
You know, you take your experience. You take the things you’ve learned; you try to. You know, it’s weird. I’m in a weird position right now where people are asking me a lot of questions about where do you take it, and the wisdom and the profound kinda questions associated with the film. I wanna answer them genuinely, but at the same time, I don’t want to pontificate. Because at the end of the day, I’m just a 22-year-old, I’m not some old wise man. You know what I mean? I’m just some young cat who woulda graduated college last year.
Well, it’s a great graduation ceremony. I guess the answer is, you just keep doing it.
I’m gonna try and keep making films, I’m gonna do what I can to help.
It’s just not that self-conscious of a thing, I guess…
You wanna be a good person; you wanna have a good life. That’s one of the few things I felt walkin’ away from the movie is I wanna have a good life. It’s like you walk away from an experience where you meet so many people and you’re on the road so much, and you really go, “You know, I want the world to be a better place.”
Cool. Thanks, man.
Thank you.
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By hiiiiiiiiii
October 17, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
matt, strong interview! jon krakauer is one of my favorite authors, and sean penn is one of my favorite insane dudes. what did you think of the movie? you like? haven’t seen it yet, myself.
By wombat
October 19, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
great questions… excellent interview.. reading the book and will now see the film this weekend. thanks.